and that the speaker was offering him that you had to raise rates. obama himself, as you know, said last july, july, 2011, you can get $1.2 trillion by eliminating loopholes, which is exactly what republicans offered him. so why did he insist on the rates? he said that is what he will insist upon, and that was the ultimatum. he did that because he knew it would create a crisis among the republicans and it did. so right up until now obama has what he wanted, which was a partisan, political success. he's been less worried about the fiscal issue for two reasons. number one, he does not care about debt. he hasn't in the four years. and number two, he thinks he's a political winner if we go over the cliff. he thinks he's holding all the cards. >> all right. charles, let me agree with one point. you use the term, and i will concede that's the perfect term, ruthless skill. but, as bob woodward pointed out when he wrote this book about the grand bargain negotiations, it's not going to be looked at through this historical prism as the boehner era, this is the obama e.r.a. if the economists are right and thi
